Grass_Hopper

Sorry, lucifer. I did'nt mean anything by this. I just found RM's recent CW thread on your G13 breeding project :- >> https://www.cannabisworld.org/vbpor...15&pagenumber=1 << Had I read this thread sooner, I'd never have asked this question. Good luck with the project. I respect you both for undertaking a job of this magnitude !! ~ peace to you and RM

lucifer

vaporization is the best right now, but it will get better, for one thing aromatics vaporize at different temps, so the highly volatile oils might get burnt leaving a bit of a burnt taste, but as the vapo-heads say there is no smoke, I've tried most vaporizers, the vripptech is pretty good as is the volcano, they use the same techology - ceramic heat gun pushing heated air through buds, if you do a search through patents at ep.espacenet.com there is a vaporizer patent from GW pharmaceuticals that involves a resistive element, I often wonder if it would be possible to vaporize a high quality essential oil rich extract using high frequency vibration rather than heat

Grass_Hopper

...

... somehow I conceive of vibration as generating heat; and higher frequencies as generating higher temps; so I'm inclined to think maybe it's not possible, but I'm just an amateur ...

... btw, I don't own a vaporizer, but you sold me on getting one. the Volcano looks good. thanks for the info and recommendations ... I appreciate it !! I just did a quick search online, and came up with a couple of interesting links :-

>> http://www.maps.org/mmj/vaporizerstudy4.15.03.pdf <<

>> http://www.hempworld.com/operating_manual.pdf <<

The first link is for a 57 page paper ( or dissertation ) on vaporization, and the second is for the Volcano Vaporizer Manual.

OldTimer

Grass_Hopper asked

>I've never used B&B before, so was wondering if all brands are as good as the next, or if you >recommend a particular brand over the rest, and what's the ratio of mixture in the soil.



Hi GH, I haven't been here for a while and I just spent days and days reading your posts since I was last here. Hey buddy, stop making me dizzy with so many queries - too many for an OldTimer if you know what I mean.



I use about a handful per 20litres/5gallons of soil with a teaspoon of fine gardeners lime, not dolomite.



I don’t know what brands of BB there are in your area. Just find one that is made from organically fed animals if that’s possible. In my neck of the woods they’re all good, I just stick to known good brandsnames. I also like to include another small handful of either cow or pig manure with another small dose of G lime in the same pot.



GH asked

>However, it seems lower UVB levels over a longer flowering period, may actually produce a more >potent product than peak levels during a shorter flowering period. Any comments?



If you’ve ever been in the upper tropics at winter you may have noticed that the UV light is still intense enough to burn the living daylights out of human flesh - sunburns one in no time. Almost as much as in their summer. But what makes them grow better up in those parts in their winters than they do in their summers is - 1. that the average mean day and night temps are much closer to 30degs celcius than 40degs as is in their summer. All dope starts to suffer and stress after 33degC and will not grow as well as a plant grown under 33degC. The buds grown under 33degC are much more dense and hence yield a lot more. Denser buds means denser tric concentration also. 2. far less air and ground bourne insects that love devouring tender leafed plants. In some parts of Nth Ozz it is near impossible to grow a dope plant outdoors in our summer from the foilage eating insects. No doubt the Thailanders and other equatorial growers would be just as frustrated in their summers. Another thing is that there is far less rain and clouds in winter in the upper tropics.



Take care and try not to think too much, it can hurt the grey matter. Mine that is.



Yeow Luci,



>I'm going to take one step further and boldly state that taste is directly related to the quality of >high



I second the notion Lucifer. I’m yet to smoke a beautiful tasting bud that had a bad or mediocre stone. Though I have smoked ripper stoning buds that had hardly any taste/aroma(IBL/landrace sativas from SthAmerica), others that were bad tasting but killa stoning , and others that had a mediocre taste and were very stoney. Strange that.



Best wishes to all

kurtty

Hi all
This is an interesting thread to say the least.
Have any of you guys tried creating strains using UVb light?
What if you where to give 2 perant plants UVb light there whole life and crossed them. Then kept on selectively breeding them while keeping each and every generation under UVb lighting. Would the merijuana strains natural tendancy to addapt kick in and make it over-produce THC and other canabanoids, since this is how it protects itself from uvb?

__________________
Kurtty

in between green

i just wanted to let everyone know about a company that sells U.V.B. lights in the desired 312 nm mid range. people use UV light to illuminate certain rocks in display cases that require high levels of UV. these bulbs are 13 watts and require a very common 2 pin base(GX-23) and 13 watt ballast which can be purchased locally. the manufacturer claims the special quartz tube construction transmits more UV than most other manufacturers bulbs. Oldtimer recommends 40 watts to effectively acheive the desired results in a five sq. ft. area, therefore three of these little bad boys should be sufficient for a small grow. now this can be achieved for under $200 canadian with a little work and creativity. this is the best all around company i could find for the type of U.V.B light someone would need for an "experiment" of this nature, enjoy.


www.uvlp.ca calgary alberta canada supplier.

http://www.uvlp.ca/PL13PAGE.htm - direct link to 312nm bulbs

king laharl

"The longest photoperiod that will trigger parthenocarpy in unfertilized flowering homozygous(d) Indica female marijuana plants is 13:00 hours, give or take 15 minutes. This effect can be obtained in the month of August at N35Lat, and because the capitate-stalked glandular trichomes received plenty of UVB during this month at this latitude, the harvested resin spheres had fully realized THC. Rating: euphoria and hallucinations, major appetite boost and pain relief, deep dreamless sleep. These plants seldom grow taller than four feet but potency makes up for the reduced harvest.

The gene pool is heterozygous if a flowering female marijuana plant is not parthenocarpic by the end of the first week in September in the Northern Hemisphere. If this is the case, pollination is used instead of parthenocarpy to trigger the growth of the capitate-stalked glandular trichome before the autumnal equinox to obtain as much fully realized THC as possible in the harvested resin spheres by the time the majority of the seeds are ripe.

The longest photoperiod that will trigger parthenocarpy in unfertilized flowering heterozygous female marijuana plants is 11:00 hours, give or take 15 minutes: This effect can be obtained in the month of November at N35Lat. Because of the low intensity of UVB radiation at this latitude at sea level during November, the harvested resin spheres evidenced only slightly more THC than precursor compounds. Rating: mild to medium euphoria, appetite boost and pain relief, good snooze."

So hes saying if you use a longer day whilst flowering you'l get better bud?

"For the medical marijuana outdoor grower in the Northern Hemisphere above the Tropic of Cancer, a harvest of seedless "heterozygous" parthenocarpic marijuana should not take place until mid-November (maybe late October depending on the gene pool). In no case should a harvest of outdoor seedless "heterozygous" marijuana take place in September because that would be a fool's harvest that is not going to do much for their medical condition. In fact, it will make the whole scene a complete waste of time and energy compared to what might have been."

does this not contradict that?
what is the above statement trying to say, simply that if you harvest in september the buds will be immature, or something else.
For example if someone covered up there outdoor plants at night 12/12
in august or earlier so they could harvest by the equinox in september,
is he saying that this harvest will not be as good as a november harvest
if the buds are of the same maturaty (sp?)
Iwould of thought the equinox harvest would be better since the buds have matured in maximum sunlight am i correct?

lucifer

here's a couple of interesting pics, first one shows how the surface speed of the earth reaches a maximum of 1700 kph or just over 1000mph at the equator, so there is stronger magnetic forces working at the equator which may or may not contribute to the production stronger pot, it definitely contributes to stronger healthier plants, also a compost pile made at the equator will reach maturity in a couple of months while it may take 6 months to a year using the same materials at a northern or southern latitude

second pic shows some seasonal differences between latitudes

Attached Thumbnails

   

Kranatch

Question, How come a incandecent instead of warm spectrum flouros?

in between green

i believe they are used for their red light output to mimic sunset and sunrise conditions. the incandecent light is used in conjunction with the hps/mh and uvb lights.

relic22

UVB and UVA lights are used in tanning beds (My sister owns a tanning salon) UVA lights are considered safe tanning lights but comes with a milder tan. The UVB lights work better but are more dangerous.

I don't know if they're the same lights you guys are discussing, but what I can tell you is they do provide the UVB and UVA spectrum.

(I don't remember correctly, but I may have them switched around.)

Kali444

Old Timer,
First thanks for all the great info. I have a question regarding UV LED's and wether or not the light they emit would be of a benefical nature for a stealth cabinet grow. There is a specific type I am curious about that I bought off an auction website. They are set up with 18 uv leds set up in a 110v bulb setup that uses only .6 watts like what is pictured below. Do you think these would work at all, the auction gave no info as to what wavelength they produce. If you think they might work how many would you guess might be needed for a stealth cabinet that is 12"L x 12"W x 30"H. Well, hope these haven't been stupid questions.

Quisp

Interesting read. I think a few areas are kinda subjective to ones point of view. Like the trichome being a prism of sorts when I think its optical properties are more or less like a light trap. To catch or bend the light away from the bud as a form of protection. The idea of the prism to catch the light to use it might work well on the more photosensitive leaf area but not for the buds.

I have always said if you want to improve your potency of any particular strain you need to start by manipulating the spectrum of light the plant receives. Magic ferts, wacky light periods, prolonged dark before harvest, I have heard them all and tried the ones that made some sense and nothing I tried produced any noticable difference but light spectrum.

The point had been made that the one location that seems to out do all indoor locations as far as potency potential and thats outdoor. This is for a couple of really tight reasons. The first is the lost lumens factor. The sun beams light for 9 million miles before it reaches earth so there isnt any lost lumens factor when the light is the same brilliance at 2 feet the same as it is when its at 300 feet, etc. The normal hid loses at least 50% of its lumanace at the distance of more than a few feet. All this extra light is fairly stressing on a plant and those familiar with moving a plant from indoors to out knows about the time needed to acclimatize the plant to the stronger light.

The other outdoor factor is the abundance of UV. UV is one of the largest factors when it comes to making a bud more potent. To get good UV you either need to be outside or be able to bring high output UV sources inside. What I mean by high output is a source that kick it out to a distance of 5-7 feet. LED's are good for an inch or two, tanning bulbs are good for a few inches otherwise they wouldnt need to sandwich your butt in that clamshell so tight to get a tan.

So what does that leave in the realm of lights? Pretty much were stuck with hids. The question is finding the right balance in spectrum to deliver our needs. No one seems to mention that HPS lights while a great source for flowering buds are one of the absolute worst for UV. HPS generate little or no UV light. Mercury vapor on the other hand generates lots of UV but their spectrum is too narrow to make any good use of it for sustained plant growth. Plants grow much darker under MV lights. MH is the one bulb that does generate substantial UV light and is a fairly wide spectrum for plants to use. You would only be fooling yourself if you think the bulb coating blocks much of anything on MH bulbs. Spend a few hours under a MH hid and you'll end up with the worst sunburn you ever got. Bad once cause it burns, bad twice because it tends to itch like mad for hours afterwards.

I did the switch for a few years to HPS but noticed the same strains I had worked with for ages were not as strong as they used to be. I switched back to MH and with the new mfgs out there making bulbs like the warm deluxe its even a better time flowering with MH. When you have tried all the other options give the spectrum a whirl.

__________________
Chaos is only being able to influence the future while remembering the past --- Q

v1ru5

Kali444: Those leds obviously emit UVA light, as you can see it. UVB light is invisible, according to the posts made above.

Grass_Hopper

hi there OldTimer ~

sorry 'bout all the questions, and my inability to articulate my thoughts more clearly ... I often confuse myself, and have a tendency to complicate things unnecessarily, so I can imagine (understand?) how you felt reading my posts ... anyway, sorry 'bout not replying sooner, but I' ve been out-of-comission for most of the time that has elapsed since my last visit here, due to health (uvb unrelated) and other personal issues ... many thanks for your kind assistance and good luck with your Pure Haze breeding project, which I have been observing in SB's Forum @ CW ... I wish you all the success in the world, and more, hoping to myself, along with millions of others, to partake of its fruits!! ... peace, GH~

P.S. =>> I found the following online, and thought to post it here, thinking that it would find a few interested cultivators =>>

Ultraviolet Radiation

>> http://www.hempfood.com/IHA/iha01201.html <<
Another stress to which plants are subject results from their daily exposure to sunlight. While necessary to sustain photosynthesis, natural light contains biologically destructive ultraviolet radiation. This selective pressure has apparently affected the evolution of certain defenses, among them, a chemical screening functionally analogous to the pigmentation of human skin. A preliminary investigation (Pate 1983) indicated that, in areas of high ultraviolet radiation exposure, the UV-B (280-315 nm) absorption properties of THC may have conferred an evolutionary advantage to Cannabis capable of greater production of this compound from biogenetic precursor CBD. The extent to which this production is also influenced by environmental UV-B induced stress has been experimentally determined by Lydon et al. (1987). Their experiments demonstrate that under conditions of high UV-B exposure, drug-type Cannabis produces significantly greater quantities of THC. They have also demonstrated the chemical lability of CBD upon exposure to UV-B (Lydon and Teramura 1987), in contrast to the stability of THC and CBC. However, studies by Brenneisen (1984) have shown only a minor difference in UV-B absorption between THC and CBD, and the absorptive properties of CBC proved considerably greater than either. Perhaps the relationship between the cannabinoids and UV-B is not so direct as first supposed. Two other explanations must now be considered. Even if CBD absorbs on par with THC, in areas of high ambient UV-B, the former compound may be more rapidly degraded. This could lower the availability of CBD present or render it the less energetically efficient compound to produce by the plant. Alternatively, the greater UV-B absorbency of CBC compared to THC and the relative stability of CBC compared to CBD might nominate this compound as the protective screening substance. The presence of large amounts of THC would then have to be explained as merely an accumulated storage compound at the end of the enzyme-mediated cannabinoid pathway. However, further work is required to resolve the fact that Lydon's (1985) experiments did not show a commensurate increase in CBC production with increased UV-B exposure.

This CBC pigmentation hypothesis would imply the development of an alternative to the accepted biochemical pathway from CBG to THC via CBD. Until 1973 (Turner and Hadley 1973), separation of CBD and CBC by gas chromatography was difficult to accomplish, so that many peaks identified as CBD in the preceding literature may in fact have been CBC. Indeed, it has been noted (De Faubert Maunder 1970) and corroborated by GC/MS (Turner and Hadley 1973) that some tropical drug strains of Cannabis do not contain any CBD at all, yet have an abundance of THC. This phenomenon has not been observed for northern temperate varieties of Cannabis. Absence of CBD has led some authors (De Faubert Maunder 1970, Turner and Hadley 1973) to speculate that another biogenetic route to THC is involved. Facts scattered through the literature do indeed indicate a possible alternative. Holley et al. (1975) have shown that Mississippi-grown plants contain a considerable content of CBC, often in excess of the CBD present. In some examples, either CBD or CBC was absent, but in no case were plants devoid of both. Their analysis of material grown in Mexico and Costa Rica served to accentuate this trend. Only one example actually grown in their respective countries revealed the presence of any CBD, although appreciable quantities of CBC were found. The reverse seemed true as well. Seed from Mexican material devoid of CBD was planted in Mississippi and produced plants containing CBD.

Could CBC be involved in an alternate biogenetic route to THC? Yagen and Mechoulam (1969) have synthesized THC (albeit in low yield) directly from CBC. The method used was similar to the acid catalyzed cyclization of CBD to THC (Gaoni and Mechoulam 1966). Reaction by-products included cannabicyclol, delta-8-THC and delta-4,8-iso-THC, all products which have been found in analyses of Cannabis (e.g., Novotny et al. 1976). Finally, radioisotope tracer studies (Shoyama et al. 1975) have uncovered the intriguing fact that radiolabeled CBG fed to a very low THC-producing strain of Cannabis is found as CBD, but when fed to high THC-producing plants, appeared only as CBC and THC. Labeled CBD fed to a Mexican example of these latter plants likewise appeared as THC. Unfortunately, radiolabeled CBC was not fed to their plants, apparently in the belief that CBC branched off the biogenetic pathway at CBD and dead ended. Their research indicated that incorporation of labeled CBG into CBD or CBC was age dependent. Vogelman et al. (1988) likewise report that the developmental stage of seedlings, as well as their exposure to light, affects the occurrence of CBG, CBC or THC in Mexican Cannabis. No CBD was reported.

guineapig

Old Timer thank you for your posts!

Mechoulam writes of exposing a solution of CBD and n-hexane to an ultraviolet light of 235-285 nm. I think that's mainly the UVB range. After 48 hours, he reports that 15% of the solution has turned to different isomers of THC some of which have never been identified in the natural product. So I think UVB does somehow make a more fully realized THC product and this includes varying degrees of psychoactivity. I wish I had Mechoulam's book published in 1976 but I think it is out of print, so I am going by other people's interpretation of his research.
That is good advice warning of the dangers of UVB. Plant physiologists theorize that there is a plant receptor similar to phytochrome (red) and cryptochrome (blue- I worked with the researcher who discovered that one) that corresponds to UVB light. But what the function of UV light in the plant growth and development nobody yet knows. But It clearly has a proven effect in the biosynthesis of THC. So, I am thinking that UV helps plants modulate their own biochemistries to create terpenes and other organic compounds that function in tri-trophic interactions.
By the term "tri-trophic interactions" I refer to the plant's ability to affect different insects' behavior via the emission of different compounds. The classic example is: a thrip-like insect chomps down into the leaf of your favorite plant and begins to suck out all the juices. The resulting wound in the tissue causes the release of a chemical compound that floats upon the wind and attracts a specific predatory wasp that cannot help but fly over to the plant. This wasp then eats the thrip!
In evolutionary terms, think about how long plants existed in the ocean versus how long they have existed on land. Only on land do they need these aromatic compounds to float on the wind to attract different insects. And I bet you they weren't receiving much UV light under water all that time. So UV light can only play a role in processes that are relatively "new" on an evolutionary time-scale. One of these processes is "getting humans stoned..."
This brings us to the evolutionary question: why the heck do plants make THC at all? Science is great for telling us "how" plants make THC, but there is always that elusive "why?" But let us leave this for another thread...

kind regards, gp

Quisp

Are you sure on some of that terminology? I tried looking up a few of the words and terms and they drew blanks or different definitions. Peace.

__________________
Chaos is only being able to influence the future while remembering the past --- Q

guineapig

which terms? "tri-trophic" - "tri" meaning "three," "trophic" meaning levels. The three levels are the plant, the thrip and the thrip-eating wasp. Took a class on this stuff in 1997 so it could be a little outdated...peace

Quisp

I get the seperation of compound words but tritrophic with or without the hyphen isnt a word in any refferenced dictionary or botanical literature I have ever read. Then your meaning of trophic isnt quite correct. Every instance of " trophic " will be found to mean " of relating to or characterized by nutrition. " So Im not quite sure where "levels" comes into that description. From all the other information you give regarding tri-trophic interactions being a chemical on the wind that would be an attractant to insects and birds can only be deduced as being what they would normally call a phermonal interaction.

Then you may be a little off in the meaning of phytochrome and cryptochrome. Cryptochrome is another word I was unable to find or referrence anywhere. And the description of phytochrome I found was this, " A cytoplasmic pigment of green plants that absorbs light and regulates dormancy, seed germination, and flowering. "

I did find the correlation of ocean dwellers interesting considering thats pretty much the soup from which we all came but as far a evolutionary species goes all above ground land plants/trees are about as different from ocean plants as humans are to insects. The differences far outnumber the similarities between the two.

__________________
Chaos is only being able to influence the future while remembering the past --- Q